Love Bombing

Speaker 1: 00:05
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to YNA Mental Health. This is Cheyenne, joined here in the YNA studio by my co-hosts Brandon, Sina, and Will. Today we're gonna be covering the topic of love bombing. Sina, tell us a little bit about love bombing.

Speaker 3: 00:23
So the phrase love bombing comes from a recruitment technique used by cults. The term came about in the 1970s and 80s, reportedly coined by the Unification Church, a controversial religious movement in which missionaries from Japan and South Korea were sent to the United States by the church founders. So they used this to bring you a part of the cult. They would try to find different methods and techniques. And now Will will tell us what is love bombing.

Speaker 2: 00:53
Yeah, not you know, nothing against cults or anything. Like if you're in a cult, that's fine. Like, don't let us judge you. I don't know about that. Okay. Well, so love bombing is a toxic and manipulative behavior by constant contact, nonstop attention, and grand gestures early in a relationship. It's pretty much just a manipulation technique often used by narcissists to overwhelm their victim with romantic gestures designed to make you feel more than simply flattered, right? Um, and that's from psycholytoday.com. Uh, the one thing that I think is important to say before we really get into it is like what's the intent behind the decisions that people make towards you in like a relationship. And again, this can be, we're gonna talk, I think, more about like love relationships, but you know, this could be like a friendship, um a relationship with a family member, like it could be anything. Um, how I kind of see it is love bombing has a few different kinds of categories you can go down. Um, there's love bombing, you know, on purpose, but with malicious intent. So, you know, you are actively trying to like get in this person's head, and we'll we'll talk further about what that kind of means, um, but you're doing it with malicious intent. And then second, you're doing it on purpose, but you you don't mean to do it in a malicious way. And then thirdly, you don't even know you're doing it, but you are love bombing. Um, so you know, anything you hear, I don't want people to like hear this and then they're like, oh shit, I'm a love bomber. Like, holy fuck, I'm uh I'm messed up, you know? Or you know, like don't don't don't like feel bad about it, but like be aware. Um, and we'll kind of talk about the conversations you can kind of have with somebody and how you respond to those conversations um to see like, you know, are are you doing it in a malicious way? Because I don't know, maybe you're doing it in a malicious way and you don't even know. Maybe you're not doing it. Maybe you are doing it, but you don't know you're doing it, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: 02:37
It's really funny he said that because when we all four got together and we kind of brought our notes together in research to figure out like what is love bombing, three of us said that we might have been love bombing.

Speaker 1: 02:49
Right?

Speaker 2: 02:49
Like it might I think that was the importance of those categories, right? It's like I well, I didn't know I was doing it, but I don't know, maybe I wasn't doing it. Shit.

Speaker 3: 02:58
Yeah, so if you're listening to this and you feel like, wait, maybe I am a love bomber. What Will said was really important was what was the focus of your intent? Because that's where it seems like we draw the line of it to become a malicious activity or manipulation technique to really gain the uh like kind of brainwash somebody to really love you.

Speaker 2: 03:21
So oh, wait, wait, before you go to the a good test with if you're a love bomber or not, maliciously is how you respond to this podcast. When you heard, hey, you might be a love bomber, or you hear something that you do might make you a love bomber, do you say, No, that's not true, or do you think about it, you know?

Speaker 3: 03:38
And if you do feel as if you might be a love bomber, send us an example or uh DM us on Instagram at YNA Mental Health to share your story about why you might be a love bomber, why you might have been love bomb, so that we can kind of get a cool grasp and that we might be able to share your story in later episodes as well. So yeah, we're certified. The biggest motives of love bombing, and we split it up into four kind of important topics that we're kind of jumping into. So the first one is family culture of affection expressiveness, and so in a lot of cultures and diversities, giving gifts and being affectionate is very normal. So I come from a Persian background or Iranian background, and in our culture, being very affectionate and gift giving is very normal. It's something that we personally feel as if it's a sign of expressing yourself on how much you care and love about somebody. So I didn't think I was a love bomber until I looked back into my background and I realized, wait, maybe I am a love bomber simply just because of the culture that I come from. You know, it seems like it's normal, but it might not be actually a very uh good thing to be doing. Does anybody else have anything that they come back from their culture or their families, or something that they saw maybe that they're like, wait a second, but I could have been love bombing because of my family that kind of showed me this.

Speaker 2: 05:10
Well, see, is that love bombing? You know, because like like to you, that's not love, like you wouldn't take that as love bombing, but to someone else who I I don't know, had a you know I I don't know what culture it would be, but just more of like a disconnected family, maybe, right? And they're they don't get gifts often, so they might see that as love bombing. I think like communication is just a big thing, like here, because to you it's not.

Speaker 3: 05:33
Right. And I think the one thing we were trying to jump off of was like how quickly does it happen? It seems like love bombing happens like right away. First date, gifts, things are being expressed to you right away. In my culture, it's you're not giving gifts right away. Um, you're just showing a lot of affection and showing a lot of love for the person because love is very important in the Iranian culture. And so when it comes to things like that, I think again, where we're going to show people is what is the intent? What is your focus? What do you want to do when you love bomb somebody? At the end of it, like what are some things that you say to yourself? What are some things that they say to you? And it's really important. Um, so this is something that you might find a way to respond to if you're being love-bombed by somebody who has like a family culture and list, is telling them that that so much attention is not something that you're accustomed to and it makes you uneasy, or it's just not how you generally approach a relationship. If they're not intent on manipulating you, then they should be able to stop the behavior and give the relationship more time to develop. So it kind of gets thrown back into your ball of like self-awareness and kind of understanding how quickly the relationship is moving.

Speaker 2: 06:46
Oh my god, dude. Okay, sorry, my brain's going down a river, and I just hit a rock and I wanted to touch the rock. So I'm going this way. Um let us hear in high sch I just remembered in high school. I totally remembered I dated this girl for like two weeks. That literally from day one, I started calling her like beautiful, and I told her that every single day, like every second of every day. And she had a conversation. She was like, like, I don't like like it makes me feel uneasy that like you're telling me this. You know, we're in high school, I don't fucking know. Like, um, and I kept doing it, and then like it obviously we broke up like a week later. I was like, Yeah, what happened? Um, she told me I was like, dude, I was love momming.

Speaker 1: 07:23
Yeah, well, I I think that um when you're in like middle school, high school, or just growing up, I think it's okay to be naive to these things because you live and learn, you know, you go through relationships, but like the at the point where this really hits, where you should probably stop doing is when you you know get away from college, start becoming an adult, start having these genuine relationships with people. It's like at some point you gotta learn. And that, you know, that's what we're here to do. We're here to help you learn, help you realize the intent behind the gift giving, and you know, whether or not uh what your actual intentions are to this person.

Speaker 3: 07:58
And so it jumps into the next motive. Uh, a lot of people who love bomb are lonely and they desire for a close relationship to develop quickly. This is something I've had an issue with, is I get very excited in the beginning of our in a relationship that like I start imagining about like where these things can go, where a relationship can head, and how I can make this person fall in love with me so quickly. Uh, so I've definitely had some kind of issues with this, is where I jump in so quickly that it's just like you go from being on a diving board straight into the deep end of the water, and you're just gift-giving, affectionate, just like you said. Will like it was like something that I continuously did because I hadn't had something like that special in a really long time. So I definitely see myself seeing those kind of issues, and of course, as everybody, we got to adapt, we gotta learn, we gotta be better. And now I don't do those kind of things, I don't jump into the deep end, you just kind of dip your feet into the water and kind of get an understanding of where the relationship is at.

Speaker 2: 08:59
A big part of that too is like that loneliness thing is more like the happiness, right? Like if you're not, um, and I'm sure people have heard this before, but you want to be be happy to be by yourself, you know. Like you don't want to have that person around 100% of the time. I mean, you might want to, but like, can you are you capable of being happy on your own, right? Because you don't want that other person to be the 100% reason for your happiness. Like you want to be able to, you know, that their happiness, the happiness that they give you should just be an addition to yours. It shouldn't be the purpose of your happiness.

Speaker 1: 09:30
Yeah, I I definitely think that self-awareness and self-love can can really help you get away from the love-bombing tendencies. Because I feel like when you grow up and you first start loving somebody, it's not like everybody's read the rule book on love and how to treat other people, you know. It's just it's a learning process. So, I mean, of course, I feel like maybe like 99% of everybody around the world, when they've gotten in a relationship, they've love bombed at first.

Speaker 3: 09:55
Yeah. And there's no like rule book to love either. There's no like someone giving you like rules, and this is how you do it, this is the guide. I feel like everybody loves differently, everybody finds their person differently. And I think that different people bring a different energy out of you. Um, that just plays a really important part of the relationship and how you kind of adjust to not throwing so much affection at them and throwing so many gifts at them that you gotta take it slow, you gotta take it at their level of comfort.

Speaker 2: 10:24
So actually, here's a question. Go ahead. If if both people are like that, is it love bombing?

Speaker 3: 10:31
That's a good question, actually.

Speaker 1: 10:33
So if you both think it depends because, like, if you let's say you're growing up and it this is mostly about like give gift giving and like showering somebody with compliments, I think it all comes down to whether or not you expect that person to do the same thing in return for you. Like whether it's giving the gifts or to compliment you. It's a nice thing to do, but once you start expecting or you you have the intent of doing this love bombing in order to get it back so you feel better about yourself or to have control over the other person, then that's when it would be both of you love bombing. Whether or not you you both are doing the same thing, it just all comes down to the intent. It it doesn't matter if it's if it's both of you.

Speaker 3: 11:13
What happens if you're trying to manipulate each other? Like, what happens if you meet somebody who's just doing the same thing to you?

Speaker 1: 11:19
I'm just gonna say, then you two are the perfect pair. You two were meant for each other. Just go off and have have your own relationship.

Speaker 2: 11:25
I want I want nothing to do with it. Statistically speaking, your significant other is at the highest percent most likely to murder you. Not that, you know, it's gonna happen, but it's a nice thought. Your significant your significant other is the most likely one to murder you. So maybe it's just higher if you're both mean if manipulating each other.

Speaker 3: 11:45
And this is where communication plays an extremely important part in your relationship. I think just expressing how you feel, even if it's a first date, even if you're about to go on a first date, communicate, figure out what's comfortable for you. Don't just be like, oh, this is okay. I'm okay with this, because it can lead down a very, very dark road. That is such a true thing.

Speaker 2: 12:08
I've learned that, and that is great. Communication is so fucking nice. Like, it really is. It is hard, but like it's only hard when the other person is not like receptive of that, right? Or, you know, like when you've just like we said, like you go through life and you learn, right? Then eventually, like both of you guys can be like not that especially the beginning, it's hard to say like what you feel because you don't want to like lose the other person. Like you're working at something, of course, but you know how how they respond you, like base your decisions on. So maybe something right away you don't get into, right? And as it progresses down the well, I don't know, relationship rainbow road, you start giving out more yourself, you know, like somebody you're dating for a month versus somebody you're dating for a year is completely different. And what you talk about, how you approach situations, you know.

Speaker 3: 12:55
I also feel like it's really easy to scare somebody away these days, you know. So you don't want to like jump right into like saying I love you or you're beautiful. I have a friend who actually kind of does that where they've been dating for about uh two weeks and he already said I love you to the person. Wow. It's just like there's there's levels to it, and taking it slow is really important, but at the same time communicating with your partner and figuring out what they're comfortable with is by far one of the hardest things to do, but at the same time, it will truly create a beautiful relationship for you if you can kind of figure out the details in the beginning.

Speaker 2: 13:39
Here's another fact for you. I don't remember where I read this from. It was from like a psychology journal, and it could be where when doing research for this, what psychology today. Um, so going slow in a relationship will lead to more success. Okay. Right? Like that, and that's I I don't know how they say scientifically proven, but based on their research, they've come to the conclusion that the slower a relationship builds and is able to still be a relationship and develop into a relationship, the longer that relationship or the more chance of success that relationship will have, right? And you can kind of think about it. Like if you're especially in college, like you go to college, you meet a girl, you you you have um sexual tendencies for the right after week one, and then like a month later, you're already bored. Like what comes after that, right? You and you might not even be comfortable talking about like I don't know, uh feelings or emotion with them or how you feel towards that person, but you've already like done like the dirty. Like, where do you go from there? You know, like do you have to talk about anything else? Do you it where does that go? So I can see like why, and even in my own life, I can see why going slower in a relationship is so much better. And it's but it is hard. You are right, it is hard.

Speaker 3: 14:50
So this kind of jumps into the next motive, which is desire to keep you on hold while they decide whether they want a lasting relationship with you. Their motivation is to find a way to secure and keep this relationship stable, but are hesitant about being vulnerable with you and their emotions, which this is something that a lot of guys do is they keep something on hold until something better comes along, and then they kind of just move along, move their tendencies that way, which has become a very big issue today in this relationship world. But let me ask you, Brandon, while you're trying to understand love bombing, have you ever just been wanting to keep in a lasting relationship? But it's been it's been such a struggle for you.

Speaker: 15:36
You know, I could say my past 100%. Um, there's been times where like you kind of do want the relationship to last forever. And in the fact of holding on and trying to make it happen, you know, I feel like you're kind of love bombing your own self in a way, if that makes sense, because you have the idea in your head that you don't want this to end, you know, this is your everything. This is kind of like what you want for rest of your life to be with this person, this and that. So I feel like, yes, you could love bomb someone else, but you could also love bomb your own self with the false ideas that you think this is will work, this will happen. So I feel like when you go to the part of trying to keep someone for whatever reason, I feel like that at that point you have to know, or you know you're actively holding on to that person with malicious intent because you're trying every way to keep that person or just string them along while they think that all this man cares about me or this girl cares about me. Both sides know 100% for a fact that you are looking for something better without telling them that. Like in your mind, you will not tell the person, of course, but like you will know that you get bored of the person, or you're kind of being shady in your own thoughts and okay, like this part, I had enough of this person for whatever the reason may be. So yeah, you could love bomb your own self, and you can also love bomb someone else.

Speaker 3: 16:58
Let me jump off what you just said, which was really important, where you come from a family where you might not feel that affection, where you might not feel that love. Love bombers look for people like that. They people love bombers who have intent of manipulating you look for people who are in broken families, broken relationships with their friends, who aren't given a lot of affection, who aren't given a lot of love, and it's so much easier for them to prey on you because it's easy to be like, I'm gonna give you all this affection and love, and you've never felt that before, so you're gonna be able to do it. Exactly. Everything that they've been missing, exactly, and now you're like, and how are you gonna break that up with somebody when you're just like, This is the first time I'm feeling something like this? This is the first time anybody's given me this kind of affection and love. How how do you how do you get out of that and then go back to your broken family? Go back to your friends who don't give you that kind of sort of love that you're allowing the other partner to give you. So it makes it even harder for you to leave the relationship.

Speaker 2: 17:57
Yeah, do you think that they do look for those people specifically, or do you think that they look for everybody, right? Because if you're if you're not, um if you're like say, take that example again from a broken family, if you're not from a broken family, um, you know, you see that where it is, like you you you might think like, oh, hey, I have these other support avenues of people that I can go to, you talk it out, okay, they break up. Now, the reason we see people like this with people who come from like broken families is because they don't have that, you know. Like, do you think they target everybody? Like, my question is everybody I think should be like aware of this. It's not just, oh, the people from broken families or the people who are more obviously the people who are more capable of being a victim to this should should watch out too. But I I still think people who love bomb with intent and malicious intent would target anybody. It's not just like they go out and look like, oh yeah, that girl doesn't have a dad, I'm gonna go get her, or hey that guy.

Speaker 1: 18:52
I would say that the people who have been missing that affection from their lives, those are the easiest people to kind of be attacked by this form of manipulation and control from from somebody.

Speaker 3: 19:05
I'll give you an example. A lion looks for a gazelle that's wounded, it looks for a prey that is easy targets. And it's not gonna, I don't believe like a love bomber goes and like sees somebody in the crown, it's like I know that person has a horrible relationship with their family, but I think they bait them. You know, they throw a they throw a lure into the water and they wait to see what bites. Oh, okay.

Speaker: 19:27
And they just wait. So you think they use like special words or special tactics to separate which people are strong, which people are weak?

Speaker 3: 19:33
I don't think they use special tactics or anything. I think they listen and they've tried to like poke at certain things, like, how is your family? How's your relationship with your family? How and like on a first date, that's not a uh uncommon question to ask about. It's like, how is your relationship with your mom and dad? How is it like boom? I don't have a great relationship with my mom or dad, and it's this, and it's been pretty broken. I think they look for certain words and hints to be like, boom, this is a wounded gazelle. I could silly attack.

Speaker 2: 20:04
They might not even be doing it necessarily on purpose that way. It's just like that just happens to work out in that way. So like anybody could be a victim, but just like I like your analogy. It's just they just throw the hook out there and you know the hoops. See what bites, see what bites.

Speaker 1: 20:18
Yeah, and it's it's definitely a lot harder for the love bombing to be kind of brought into light in those type of dynamics and those relationships.

Speaker 2: 20:27
Yeah, because those questions communication is not going to be that great, right? It's good, they're gonna be very evasive of those questions. Oh, yeah, already without having a support stream of your own, or for the quote unquote victim, you know, it's a like who then who do they talk about of it? You know, it's just kind of like shrugged off. Exactly.

Speaker 3: 20:43
And with broken people, sometimes it's so much easier to, I wouldn't say like walk in and learn all about them, but when like with broken people, when you're in like a loving romantic moment, your your walls start to go down, you start opening up more, you be vulnerable. And that's what that's what a love bomber looks for is vulnerability. The second, and I don't want to come out and tell everybody, don't go on relationships, like, don't be vulnerable with people. Like, be vulnerable, but be understanding at the same time and take it slow. You don't have to go straight into talking about how your family is, how this is, see how the date's going, see if there's any signs, if there's a little bit of too much affection, too much love in the beginning. We're just trying to t teach you and tell you about what we've read and what we've researched to make sure that you look out for these signs so it doesn't happen to you.

Speaker 2: 21:34
Right. And again, intent being you know, the most important thing. Right.

Speaker 1: 21:38
Exactly. And intent is a hundred percent the thing you want to look out for.

Speaker 3: 21:43
And so this jumps into the perfect last motive desire to manipulate, influence, or take advantage of you. It tends to occur in three phases, with a showering of attention and gifts being the first phase, also called idealizing. The phase is followed by devaluing, in which the receiver is ignored or otherwise punished. For not responding to the attention as hoped by the love bomber. A third phrase is eventually the discarding of the receiver who is no longer serving the needs of the love bomber.

Speaker: 22:09
You know, with that, what you just said, um relationships. So you know how you see relationships when people are on and off a lot. Either they break up, they're back together, like let's say a week later, this and that keeps on happening. I feel like, well, not I feel like I do know that it's a perfect example of love bombing, because have you ever seen when those people are like, you know, they break up and then the person wants the person back?

Speaker 1: 22:31
So so basically what you're saying is that because like they want it, especially like in the case where somebody wants to get back with another person, this is where this could also come into light, too, the love bombing. Because, you know, the intent is that you want to get back to them. So like you're you start to overcompensate, you start to shower them with gifts, you start to like give them even more affection. But in the end, the intent is almost for selfish reasons. Like, you need to be with this person rather than like, okay, like I've changed my ways, let me be nice to this person. Because the thing that you expect in return from that is ultimately to have to continue the relationship with them and to kind of bring them back into your circle and have that control where they're like, okay, I'm with this person, and I like you initiated that.

Speaker: 23:19
Yeah, and then they over-affection them so much to the point where they go back to the old self again. This could last maybe like a week or two, of saying, I'll be better, I'll change. And I'm pretty sure a lot of women have heard that so many times. Oh, he's gonna be better this time, this next. It was good for two weeks, and then boom, it's back to the same routine all over again. But this time, the pain that they're gonna endure is even worse and worse because they're gonna feel to themselves and be like, Oh, like I feel I feel dumb for actually believing what he says. And then it happens again, they break up and then they go back to get together again. It's like a continuous cycle where the woman's mind is completely fucked, but then the male is, I don't know, having some sort of like some sort of like, I don't know, like getting at the dopamine effect, getting like feeling like good about it. Like it's really weird. Yeah, it's really weird, it's really toxic.

Speaker 1: 24:08
With any relationship, I mean, of course, like being with another person can can make you happy. So you want to chase that feeling and not be like where it was in the fall off. Everybody wants that honeymoon stage, you know. So it's like you do everything you can just to get back to that stage. But then, you know, if you don't have these conversations before the honeymoon stage ends, then it's gonna be a huge drop-off. It's gonna be just all gonna go all the way down to rock bottom. You're fucked, you're you know, you went from up here all the way down here just just because you either couldn't communicate or you know, you had that malicious intent. And this is this is what this this podcast episode is about kind of bringing that to light, helping people become more self-aware, helping them kind of avoid these situations so that you know it's it's better for your mental health, it's important for you to stay happy. So you know, you need to catch these cycles when to be able to have those conversations too, exactly. And you need to catch these things before they're at their peak because you you will it will be a very long fall to the bottom.

Speaker 2: 25:04
Yeah, especially in a relationship, if there's something that bothers you, and it again being self-aware, like is it okay for them to be acting the way they are, and is it okay for you to be responding the way that you are? But more importantly, can you are do you feel like you are able to have a conversation with that other person without fear of you know being quote shit on?

Speaker 1: 25:30
I I definitely phrases I'm quote mastered. I definitely feel like whether or not this is within your realm of comfort, if this is in your comfort zone or not, this needs to be talked about because in in some cases, you know, the relationship just doesn't work out. The relationship isn't good for either one of you. And the thing is that you don't need to take it to these extreme measures in order for for you to get the outcome that you want, because a lot of relationships are just natural, like they just happen. The the only time that it's bad is if it's unnatural, you're forcing things, you're forcing these gifts, you're forcing um kind of like this false sense of happiness for the other person. I I think that's when you you really need to take a look at it in whether or not it's it's hard to look yourself in the mirror or to face your partner asking them these tough questions, it's a conversation that definitely needs to be had.

Speaker 3: 26:27
And what our research told us was that men are more likely to love bomb than women. But at the same time, guys, if you can be love bomb by a woman as well, and whether you're also in a different type of relationship, whether it's a man on a man or a woman with a woman, these things can still happen in your relationship. So don't just look at it as gender roles, but look at it as what's going on in your relationship or what's going on in things that you see with your partner.

Speaker 2: 26:58
Um, because even outside of it, even outside of it, friends, yeah, family.

Speaker 3: 27:02
Talk to what love bombers like to do is they like to pull you away from that kind of uh what is it, the the good voice in the back of your head, which are your friends and family, most of the time, not all the time, but they're always looking out for you, they always want to have your back. So if you see something that's going on and you don't want to bring it up with your partner, bring it up with your friends and family. See what they have to say, see if it's kind of like if they feel as if you're moving too quickly or things are progressing way too fast. So always be able to have these conversations with yourself, but also with the people around you. And if you don't have anybody around you to have this conversation with, you're more than welcome to DM us. We are always here to have conversations with you as well. If anything's going on in your life, please feel free to DM us on YA Mental Health on Instagram. Uh, just because sometimes we don't always have the right person to have this conversation with.

Speaker 2: 27:59
But also it'll give us more ways of looking at a situation. You know, whether it's you know, even about love bombing, but anything that we talk about, feel free to reach out because that's something we can address, not using any names or anything, but in a later episode, it's something to expand on. You know, maybe we missed something we didn't realize, you know, was such a major factor to anybody.

unknown: 28:18
Right.

Speaker 1: 28:18
Yeah, exactly. Feel free to DM us, hit us up with your stories. Um, we'll if you guys have ever experienced love bombing or if you have questions, like, am I the love bomber? We're more than happy to have a conversation with you guys. We want to reach out to the community, get everybody's story. And yeah, and maybe maybe we'll we'll post you on our on our Instagram or on our Facebook. We love connecting with our community, so give us your stories and we'll be here for any advice that you guys might need.

Speaker 3: 28:47
So here's some questions you should ask yourself if they're love bombing you. Are there in are there interactions with you usually transactional? I gave you that expensive gift and now you owe me. Do they ask you for too much of your time, leaving little for other friends or family? Is there pressure to move the entire relationship along too quickly for your comfort? If you deny any of their requests, this is very important. Is that attention phase quickly followed by the devaluing phase? Which jumps into the love bombing cycle, which is first you get love bombed, then they devalue you, then they discard you, and then there's actually a fourth one that says hoovering. And what hoovering is is hoovering involves various manipulative tactics to stay close to the survivor. Brandon, I know you had a good example. Do you remember your example?

Speaker: 29:35
I do remember my example. Um, so my example was spending time all the time, I should say, with your partner. Don't get me wrong. It's the beginning of the relationship, both of you are infatuated by love, want to do every moment, every second together. That's fine. But at the same time, make sure that you two have a good boundary and a good space. There is some people out there, I'm not gonna list their names, I'm gonna call them Jane and Doe. So, for example, wants to go out with her friends, right? But then Joe, on the other hand, is saying, Oh, like basically just stay inside this and that. It could get deep to a point where it gets unhealthy because then any little thing that Jane tries to do, or even Joe, if if it was flipped, that their partner will say no. They will try to control every little thing they do. So basically, you get lost with your own self, you get out of touch, and it's like you can't even do the simplest things because otherwise they'll start using, for an example, oh, you're probably gonna go cheat on me if you're out with your friends, or you're probably doing some shady shit, basically, right? And so then it gets so toxic and so bad to the point where it's just like it's not healthy anymore. Like it's just it's bad. It's just bad. So it's always good to have communication, you know. If you're gonna go out with your friends or anything, whatever the case may be, you're gonna go do this or do that, communicate, tell her him or her the day before, just be like, hey, or I'm I'm gonna go do this, you know, still keep her in contact, you know, text them every once in a while, this and that. You know what I mean? Don't make them feel like out of the loop, you know. So it's always like I said, communication is always key. So make sure that's always there. And if that ever happens to you to the point where you feel like you can't do anything because they're controlling you, then I have a question.

Speaker 1: 31:17
Would you guys think that love bombing and like intentional love bombing can be kind of compared to gaslighting? Because you're you're kind of like making the other person think like, oh, they're just in love with me, they're doing all these nice things for me, but like it again, it comes it goes back to the intention where it's like they they have something else on their mind, they want to be controlling and whatever, make them think that they're being loved so they can get away with other stuff. It's like, is do you guys think that they're a little bit loosely related? I think it's directly related.

Speaker 2: 31:47
You think it's directly related, especially in doing research for this love love bombing specifically? Um gaslighting was another topic that just always came up. Even to the point where the articles um where I'm going through like the the in title is literally just gaslighting. It's no more talk about love bombing, it's just what is gaslighting? Yeah, you know, we have an episode on that. I mean, feel free to check it out. But um, yeah, I definitely think it's very related.

Speaker 3: 32:15
And I think the like, if you look at the broader picture of all of this, it all stems from narcissism. And this is all things that narcissists do. These are manipulation tactics that they love to use on other people. And once they've got you, it's much harder to realize that you're either being love bombed, you're being gaslit, whatever manipulative tactic that they're trying to get you on, once they have you, it's it's like brainwash pretty much. And until you pull yourself out and realize what's going on, it's going to take a lot of like self-awareness, a lot of conversations with yourself, a lot of conversations with your friends and family. Do not be again, do not be afraid to have these conversations. And here are some phrases said by Love Bombers You are my soulmate. I never met anyone I feel so close to. Everything about you is what I wanted. It's this idea of sweeping you off your feet. It's like Prince Charming coming up to you with like a fake mask on, and you can't tell that he has a mask on, and he's just saying all the right things to you. Red flag, red flag. That just screams red flag. And that it took me so long to realize like what are red flags, and for you, it might take even longer, or you might know your red flags right away. But one thing I definitely recommend is truly understanding what a red flag is. If Prince Charming with a mask comes up to you, be careful, be smart.

Speaker 1: 33:42
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:43
But again, right, I think the conversation is like, how do you know? Like, you have to discover that. And you gotta again, what Shine said, self-awareness. I think that's another big thing, aside from the intent, is like your own self-awareness.

Speaker 3: 33:54
And how do you know that that person's just not actually in love with you? I think this is again where the gray area starts, where we're so confused on Yeah, where's the line? Where is the line? And I want to look out for those represents.

Speaker 2: 34:06
I want to ask you guys because that at the beginning, when I talked about, okay, there's that was just my perception of these categories, right? There's the love bombing with malicious intent, there's love bombing that you you don't know you're doing it, but you are with intent doing like you're giving gifts, or you know, you're loving this person too much, giving good, or you're calling them beautiful all the time. And then there's love bombing without even knowing you're doing it. But this that that middle one, the love bombing on purpose, but without malicious intent. How see, like my example is again, when you talked about how your family and your culture is big with gift giving, but maybe this other person is not. Is that love bombing to them? Is it love bombing to you? You know, like who who decides that? Where's the line? But in my experience, like I like to give gifts and not just like like I'm not gonna go, uh, I'm gonna buy her this ring, I'm gonna buy her this, these earrings, just you know, spend a lot of money. Like, my idea for gifts is more like uh quality of life things, like, oh, they're they're I don't know, they're vacuum broke. It would be nice if they had another vacuum, you know, like just something like that. Um, but just like hey, gifts that have more meaning, then it's just like, oh, I'm trying to be flashy with expensive items so they stay. It's like, oh, what would they like? But I also don't expect anything in return, uh, you know, aside from like a thank you. Like that that I I would like a thank you. But I mean, that's just you know, I'm not looking for anything more. So who decides? Like, I just don't want people who are hearing this to say, oh shit, like, because I give gifts, right? We had this conversation. I feel like I'm am I a love bomber? Like, maybe that's me love bombing, but at the same time, I you know, further down this conversation, I've realized we're not, I'm not doing it to be manipulative, at least that I think. I like it's gonna take some thinking, but you know, like I I just don't want people to hear this and be like, shit, I'm fucked up. I gotta go talk to this person about this. When maybe you don't, you know, you don't, you know, you can understand yourself that you're not doing it with malicious intent. Yeah, but maybe you are doing it, you know?

Speaker 1: 36:07
Yeah, and I I think that every culture has its own unique values and practices, and I think I think it's important to carry that on. Uh, what uh depending on whatever culture you you come from, and if if the kind of acts of love are gift giving, or if it's just something that you're supposed to do or meant to do. I think the most important thing is you can't really expect something in return from others just because you gave them something. Like, not everything is gonna be 50-50 in every single relationship. Like you you don't always get out what you put in. And again, like when it comes back to the intent, you just gotta make sure that you don't expect anything in return, regardless of the culture. Because I mean, culture is a beautiful thing, it differentiates different people from around the planet, and this the love bombing, if if you can't do it without the selfish intent, then maybe you need to have you know a self-reflective moment with yourself or with your partner.

Speaker 3: 37:13
I also think how it's how you respond. So let me just say like, let's just say you become extremely affectionate and you're showing gifts, and the person responds with, I'm not very comfortable with this. What do you do after that? Do you say you back off and you're like, hey, okay, I'm not gonna shower with gifts, I'm not gonna continually do that much affection, it's making her uncomfortable. That's where I think you kind of figure out whether you're love bombing or not is what do you do after they call you out on it and say, Hey, I'm not comfortable with this.

Speaker 2: 37:41
Have we ever done an episode on relationship anxiety? We will. Dude, let's do that next.

Speaker: 37:46
That's a I think that plays perfectly into this.

Speaker 1: 37:49
Oh, yeah.

Speaker: 37:49
I feel like like Rony, your uh questions, Cina, I just say, like, kind of we discussed earlier too, communication 100% could go a long way to that. Because if you talk to them and you know, just ask like the similar questions, like, okay, like, you know, you understand that makes me feel comfortable. Just ask them, like, just be like, okay, like, um, why does it make you feel comfortable? Like, I want you to tell me like everything, you know, just so I could learn from my experience and then our experience too. So next time you could go better about it, you know. Maybe during that time it wasn't the right time to throw all those gifts or whatever you did that made her feel comfortable, you know. Like maybe down the road, let's say like a year, year and a half or so, but depending on the comfortability of the relationship, that you can start expressing those things of what you did right off the bat, you know, because kind of like we said too, like it is scary, like going 100% full freight train off the rip, being like, oh my god, I love you, this and that. Let me give you this, let me give you that, and then everything. And of course, it's gonna make them feel a little differently and just be like, okay, like this is all a little bit too much. This is way too extreme for me. Help me, dear God, you know. So always good to slow it down. And also, too, like, um, I think going back to yours, Will, how you said, you know, you like you may be love bombing without even knowing that you're love bombing. Um, I was kind of sitting here thinking for a while, like, how can you go about thinking with your own self if you're a love bomber, a love bomber or not? And basically, I kind of just told myself, and this may be very simple and so vague, but I just thought to myself, you know, like, am I a respectful person? Um, do I have any malicious intent to do anything to this person? You know, am I, I think I already said, am I rude? Am I mean? Things like that, you know, like, you know, have like that, that real talk to yourself, you know, like if you know you're not an asshole, if you know you're not mean, you know you're not rude, you know, you don't have anything dealing with trying to get back at somebody or something, then you should be okay. Like it's okay to express yourself and be, you know, it's okay to be a little too much, you know, as people call over excessive or needy. But you know, there's always a fine line with that. Just be careful of your own actions and just, you know, watch yourself to see, you know, like, am I going a little overboard? You know, and it's it's it doesn't hurt. That's how I feel.

Speaker 2: 39:60
Because you want to put that person on a pedestal, right?

Speaker: 40:01
Yeah, you know, you want to make them feel like they're they're the shit, you know. Like, and I do the same thing with my girlfriend, you know. I always tell her like everything that, you know, she's my everything and all that stuff. But I know I don't have any intent for sure of being like, okay, I'm gonna be this way towards her, I'm gonna be that way towards her. Oh, she did this, or I'm gonna get back at her because I feel like you're whatever the case may be, just to have the upper hand, you know, like that's not the way to go about it, guys. Not the way.

Speaker 3: 40:25
Here are some ways to jump into your bunker when the bombs start dropping. This is how you protect yourself from a love bomber. Flag any excessive attention or gifts early in the relationship, or don't accept the gifts right away. Learn to recognize and steer clear of narcissists, which is a very interesting one because you don't really know when a narcissist is a really narcissist. Be aware of your own vulnerabilities. If you came from an emotionally detached family or learn to feel loved by receiving gifts, you may especially be vulnerable to love bombers. Run down a checklist of what a healthy relationship looks like, and maintain a healthy dose of realism. Any of those stand out to you guys?

Speaker: 41:03
Have a healthy dose of realism.

Speaker 3: 41:05
Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that and be aware of your own vulnerabilities, be aware of what kind of family you come from, be aware of your own feelings and emotions, understand how you're communicating, understand ways of just not accepting the gifts right away. There's a lot of things you can do. Be smart, remember, have these conversations, and just communicate.

Speaker 1: 41:27
So, one of the main things that you do want to do is have that self-reflection. And it may take you out of your comfort zone, but in the end, we do believe here at YNA that it will put you in a better mental state. It'll help you understand yourself a little bit more. It's been a great episode talking about love bombing. Thank you to Brandon, Cena, and Will. And thank you to our community. Again, if you have any stories, hit us up on Instagram, YNA Mental Health, and we will give you some advice.

Speaker 3: 41:59
And please, please, please remember you are not alone. We'll catch you on the next episode.

Speaker 1: 42:03
Goodbye.